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Ayr Wargames Club

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Steve (Admin)
Steve (Admin)

Posts : 45
Join date : 2011-01-15
Age : 52
Location : Maybole

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PostSubject: Re: Questions and Chatter   Questions and Chatter - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 23:09

Hi ScotR and welcome!

In answer to your question "What happened to 40K?" I am afraid that GW did. They now sell overpriced models and dumbed down expensive rules, which are mainly played by kids and the tactically deficient.  I still play 4th & 5th Edition which you can pick up on Ebay easily enough for a £5 or so, which aren't as bad as the terrible 6th ed.  4th Edition is the better of the two, I would say, but others would disagree.

Paper armies etc. are a good way to experiment and to play with while building up a figure collection.  Some figures just aren't available and in my view why not make replacements or stand-ins?  Better that than lose part of what could be a winning army!

Kings Of War has the major advantage of the free downloads from the Mantic site. http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html  
 The core rules contain around 90% of the printed hardback rules, the extra being a world history and a few more magical artifacts.  These rules are beginning to gain in popularity with some members of the Club and are a fast, simple set of rules which allows the players to concentrate more on battlefield tactics than rules-mongering.  Each army list provides enough variances for each race to be interesting and have their own distinct style and abilities.
 Further, card armies are very handy here.  I have been using 2D card armies for KoW (printed paper glued onto thick card to defeat the dreaded wafting breeze attack) without any major problems.  I would say KoW is most certainly worth looking at.

I hope this helps.
Steve (admin)
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Posts : 275
Join date : 2013-11-25

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PostSubject: Re: Questions and Chatter   Questions and Chatter - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 22:23

Cheers guys, guess my impressions on 40K appear to be shared. I've always treated vehicles in 40K like I treat them in Battlefield - yeah, no, thanks, I'll walk...

The card stuff has it's advantages, and as you point out, Doc, it let's you try out an army, see what works and what doesn't, and build from there. Saves spending £15 on Mephiston only to find out he's guff. The stuff I've got hold of is done by a Russian guy called Eli Patoroch (I think). He's put together a huge collection of some pretty complex papercraft 40K vehicles, most of which can be seen here - http://www.papercraftsquare.com/topics/warhammer-40k-free-paper-models-collection-topic

He's also done a load of 2D flats for figures, which is where I have taken my Blood Angels from. He appears to have most popular factions covered - Eldar, Necron, Imperial Guard, Ork, Chaos, Tyranids, and the popular chapters such as Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Salamanders, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Dark Angels, Black Templars, and of course Blood Angels. I've nearly finished printing and building the Blood Angels force, will get pics up soon to show. Already printed off a load of Eldar to give me an opponent. The flats are available from this site - http://zenseeker.net/PaperMiniatures/ - which contains much more besides the 40K stuff. Lots of dead links though, and some stuff has to be downloaded from 4shared, which can be a pain.

Other good sites to look at are this one by One Monk - http://onemonk.com/Home.html - who appears to be the daddy of paper miniatures. Some of his stuff is commercially available from sites such as http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?manufacturers_id=4300 where you pay a few quid for the PDFs, which I think is a reasonable price for some decent quality stuff in lieu of minis. His site is worth a trawl through, especially the Horde archives from 2008. This is a series of collections from themed competitions held on various forums, ranging from scenery to vehicles to minis to the odd full game. This site also has some good stuff in terms of SF vehicles - http://www.genetmodels.com

Some of the models can be pretty technical, but I fancy a crack at one of these. The PDF of printable parts is about 20 odd pages long or something.

Questions and Chatter - Page 3 QLTdZ

I suppose the downside of card figures is they can be defeated by a strong breeze...

I see a lot of support for games such as Kings of War, I take it's worth looking at?
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Posts : 342
Join date : 2011-01-21
Location : In front of my computer Duh!

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PostSubject: Re: Questions and Chatter   Questions and Chatter - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 14:47

40K 6th ed seems a horrible game. You're right it is dumbed down to play small games in shop and to get kids to buy really expensive models for flyers and tanks. These are then horribly fragile and blow up at the first solid damage they receive.
From the looks of your card army you'll be fine as they are Spa-yus Muh-reens! who are made of win and awesome. The game is now tipped in their favour as far as I can see.
I have a pile of scenery for 40K that I have bought alomg with Steve and depending on how much noticce I had I could get it into the club.

There are still Battletech figures around at the club that can be used. I have some originals. Bill has tons of Clan stuff if you want to play late era Battletech where Clan will stomp all over Inner Sphere. Mr McDowall still has your figures and says he will be coming back in sometime in 2014. George found some really good looking Battletech card buildings that he has used in the last game played at the club.

There are a lot of skirmish stylle games that get played in the club that you wouldn't need to invest a huge amount in to have a force for or there are plenty of games where John or Allan have all the figures, like WW2 or French-Indian Wars and American War Of Independance. There are still plenty of opportunities to play games as it used to be at Forehill Community Centre. We just don't have a good chippy downstairs anymore to finish the day with a bag of chips :-)

Card armies? Well your pictire looks like they are more colourful than the unpainted miniatuires we have on table sometimes. It's a good idea to get back into an expensive hobby. Means you can use armies adn find out what you like, tailor it to hwat you need then go buy the models. No one has as much spare cash these days as we once did.

I'll pm you about rules and things.
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Posts : 284
Join date : 2011-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Questions and Chatter   Questions and Chatter - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 02:05

Hey ScotR,

Welcome (back) to the club.
Starting from scratch is a pain and an expensive one at that but there are ways to minimise that ache, many of the current members have stuff they are trying to clear out or have found sites, shops, dealers that they feel are better value than others (no pointing fingers at certain companies lol).
Also most of the club members have vast collections they are more than happy to allow others to use during games at the club (I personally have a tendancy to buy at least 2 armies, warbands, factions etc for each system I play, just incase.)

As for using proxy's most of the club have little problem with this as long as it's discussed before the game.
(Again personally I couldn't care if its paper, balsa, plastic or metal as long as it either accurately represents whatever it is, has a label telling me what it is or I have been informed what it is before the game.)

I have recently taken an interest in papercraft myself (mostly scenery so far) but would love to see some of your stuff and perhaps swap some notes on where to find quality prints, etc.

Most of the systems you have mentioned see occasional games in the club or would likely find a few players who would be happy to join in or even set up a game.

As for the question on 40k, well I only started playing around 4th/5th ed so am more familiar with the current rules.
Vehicles in current rules are powerful but yes mostly made of glass, they attract lots of fire and the new damage rules mean that even several glancing shots will take most vechiles out of the game.

Feel free to post any other questions you have and hopefully we will see you in for a game sometime.
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Posts : 275
Join date : 2013-11-25

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PostSubject: Hello and some questions   Questions and Chatter - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 22:28

Hi everyone.

Firstly, a quick introduction. For those who don't know me or my brother, StuartR, and our friend Dave, we recently returned to the club after a rather large hiatus - of almost two decades - and are hoping to return again soon. We used to game at the club with an extended group of friends in the nineties, back when it was above the chippy in Forehill. Mostly we played Games Workshop based stuff, but the good guys of the club broadened our gaming horizons and introduced us to many things like BattleTech, Bodycount, Sound Of The Guns, that awesome F1 game, and loads of other stuff.

Then life got in the way. I started working in Electronics Boutique, which went on to become Game, where I worked most Sundays. I met my missus there - in fact I sacked her then started going out with her a week later. Her jobs following that were Monday to Friday, so the rare weekend off I had I tended to spend with her. I moved from Game to Tesco, which eroded social life even further, and then had a wee girl two years ago. As such, there wasn't much time for wargaming, and most of my collections went the way of eBay or Scott McDowall.

Stuart and Dave are much the same. Actually, that's not true, Dave has the cushiest job on earth and very few commitments, jammy bugger. Anyway, about a year or so ago we kinda got bitten by the bug again, and were keen on making a return to the club to say hello to the stalwarts and maybe try and get back into the hobby. As I said previously, we enjoyed coming back in December and hope to return again soon. I've started picking up a few systems again, mostly scifi, and this brings me on to my questions.

Starting from scratch again, and rebuilding collections, I'm finding it hard justifying paying the prices some companies expect. Obviously, I'm mainly referring to GW here, but they're by no means the worst. Also, a lot of systems and ranges are now defunct, and hard to find even on eBay. Given we live in a time of austerity, and I have a missus who just doesn't get wargaming and would flip her lid if I spent £30 on a tank, can anyone suggest reasonable popular ranges we should be looking at that get frequently played in the club?

I've been collecting BattleTech again, and have purchased every released edition from 2nd through to the 35th Anniversary box set, so have a reasonable collection building there. Ground Zero Games stuff has always been a favourite, so Full Thrust and Stargrunt II are definites too. We're also keen on getting back into Warhammer 40K, but I find the cost associated prohibitive. That and the rules are now stupid...

So, thanks to the wonder of the internet, I've been producing my own figures and vehicles using papercraft to proxy the collection until we can build it back up. Using pictures taken from the BattleTech Technical Readouts, resized and printed to card, I proxied Mechs I didn't have in my collection. The game we played on our return, Babylon 5 A Call To Arms, was an example of this, as I collected pictures of starships from Babylon 5, printed them off, stuck them to card, and then blue-tacked them to a base. While not as appealing as miniatures, it was functional, significantly cheaper, and allowed greater variety to the forces available.

While images of Babylon 5 ships (and indeed Battlestar Galactica, Star Wars and Star Trek) are fairly readily available, I wasn't so sure about 25-30mm Warhammer and the like, but a search of the net proved me wrong. There is a large following for papercrafting Warhammer vehicles (commonly called Paperhammer) and a decent paper wargaming community as a whole, who produce templates to print and constuct. I've been building a Blood Angels army for 40K this way, and some generic forces for Stargrunt. This image shows some of what I've been working on for an idea of how it looks:

Questions and Chatter - Page 3 20140110_215226_zps7a0f68af

Anyway, my reason for bringing this up is that it's clear a lot of gamers are opposed to this form of proxying forces. Some refuse to play against opponents who don't have the right equipment. The club I remember was always quite relaxed about these things - I remember seeing a paint-pot standing in for a Eldar support weapon on occasion - but I haven't been for a long time and would like to gauge people's feelings towards me turning up to play with a proxied army. What are people's feelings on this?

My last question is this. What the hell happened to the 40K rules? I've not played since 3rd edition, which by some accounts was broken, but I quite enjoyed. I've picked up the 6th edition rules, and read the basics section twice and still don't get it. My take on it is that they've dumbed it down to make it easier to demo in their shops, and have brought a larger focus on vehicles being a part of an force, obviously to sell over-priced, high-margin kits. Yet any video I have watched on youtube seems to show vehicles are nothing more than bullet-magnets that have little impact on a game and high attrition rates. Am I right or am I just not seeing the bigger picture? There seems to be a lot of hate for Warhammer 40K these days.

Anyway, apologies for the overly long post. It's good to be back though. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Questions and Chatter   Questions and Chatter - Page 3 Icon_minitime

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